Cap and Trade was the topic for discussion at today's Kanawha County Rotary meeting.

Speaker Patrick Michaels, senior fellow in environmental studies at the Cato Institute, and David Hawkins, director of climate programs at the Natural Resources Defense Council gave opposing viewpoints on how cap and trade will effect West Virginia's economy.

Michaels presented an argument against the current cap and trade legislation, citing Waxman-Markey and U.S. Census Bureau projections. Michaels stated that a penalty for exceeding a carbon "cap" would not lessen consumers' demand for the product. As an example, Michaels argued that when gas when to $4.00 a gallon this past year, the consumer consumption dropped just 4-percent.

Michaels referenced the Bush Administration's failed push for producing ethanol as an energy source, commenting, "We became the first nation in the world to burn its own food source for energy."

Commenting on the clean coal technology known as carbon capture and storage, Michaels indicated the process is an unrealized ploy and that politicians are using the term to garner votes from coal-producing segments of society.

"Without carbon capture and storage, you're gone; you're out," Michaels said.

In summary, Michaels stated, "There is no need to commit West Virginia to economic degradation unless a miracle occurs."

Michaels is a past president of the American Association of State Climatologists and was program chair for the Committee on Applied Climatology of the American Meteorological Society. He was also a research professor of Environmental Sciences at the University of Virginia for 30 years and holds A.B. and S.M. degrees in biological sciences and plant ecology from the University of Chicago and a Ph.D. in ecological climatology from the University of Wisconsin at Madison in 1979.

Hawkins' remarks to the audience began with an acknowledgment that the impression people in West Virginia have of cap and trade legislation is unfavorable.

"Blocking climate change legislation is not the solution. Ignoring global warming and that there will be policy changes is not the solution," Hawkins said.

"Those challenges that face West Virginia coal exist regardless," he said.

According to Hawkins, cap and trade can provide a pathway for the sustainability of West Virginia's economy by opening up new opportunities.

"There is $150 Billion available for Carbon Capture and Storage projects," Hawkins stated, further noting this was one of the main reasons that utility companies such as AEP support cap and trade legislation.

Hawkins' figures on the economic impact of cap and trade differed from those presented by Michaels.

"The accumulated impact of the legislation on the national GDP is 3/10 of 1% by 2030," he indicated.

These compliance cost estimates, he says, comes from the Energy Information Agency, the EPA, and the Congressional Budget Office.

"The key to coal in the nation's future energy mix is carbon capture and storage," Hawkins said, further noting, "If we do not have a climate bill, you can guarantee that carbon capture and storage will not get off the ground."

Hawkins said it was time for people to wake up to the reality of climate change. He says that he anticipates West Virginia being a major contributor in drafting the climate change legislation and should view the bill not as a threat, but as an opportunity."

"The message is that global warming is a real problem," Hawkins told the Coal Valley News following the Rotarian meeting. "As the United States moves to a low carbon energy solution, West Virginia is fully capable of participating. I can see West Virginia being a leader in the chemical industry and even the technologies industries."

Hawkins currently serves on the boards of the Center for Clean Air Policy, Resources for the Future and the Board on Environmental and Energy Systems of the National Academy of Sciences. He is also a member of the U.S. Department of Energy's Climate Change Science Program Product Development Advisory Committee. Hawkins is also a 1970 graduate from Columbia University Law School.

Both men's remarks were a preview of tonight's debate between Michaels and Hawkins, to be held at the University of Charleston at 6 p.m.

University of Charleston President Dr. Edwin Welch, will be moderator of this evening's debate.

The public is invited to attend the debate. It will take place in the Auditorium at Riggleman Hall, on the University of Charleston campus.